8/30/2019 Harbor Freight 800 Generator Manual
Let's ask the experts, in regards to octane ratings for engines: So, really, it boils down to what the manufacturer states for the vehicle. Higher octane levels may/may not show an appreciable difference in efficiency. Again if this claim had any merit then EPA MPG rating would not be conducted by mandate with 93 octane as they have for many many years nor would have Detroit fought so hard to keep that requirement off sticker on window.
This has cost Ford dearly in that they have had to re-rate and lower MPG of several Eco Boost models because their MPG is much worse real world with 87 octane. Detroit has long known that most are fixated on cheapest possible fuel and make sure its reflected in manual because most buyers lack the understanding that it is actually cheaper to use better fuel as they cannot see past price of fill up. Sorry, I'm going to have to go with the car experts on this one. Anecdotal, I have not noted a mileage difference in the various times I've had to buy 93, vs what I normally buy (87). Regardless, it's doubtful you would realize a large enough difference to justify the additional $0.20/gallon in 87 vs 93. Let's ask the experts, in regards to octane ratings for engines: So, really, it boils down to what the manufacturer states for the vehicle.
Higher octane levels may/may not show an appreciable difference in efficiency. Again if this claim had any merit then EPA MPG rating would not be conducted by mandate with 93 octane as they have for many many years nor would have Detroit fought so hard to keep that requirement off sticker on window. This has cost Ford dearly in that they have had to re-rate and lower MPG of several Eco Boost models because their MPG is much worse real world with 87 octane. Detroit has long known that most are fixated on cheapest possible fuel and make sure its reflected in manual because most buyers lack the understanding that it is actually cheaper to use better fuel as they cannot see past price of fill up. Sorry, I'm going to have to go with the car experts on this one. Anecdotal, I have not noted a mileage difference in the various times I've had to buy 93, vs what I normally buy (87). Regardless, it's doubtful you would realize a large enough difference to justify the additional $0.20/gallon in 87 vs 93.
It is funny how the fact that they have long used 93 for EPA tests and lobbied hard to keep it off sticker and that fact escapes you. As far as manual duh, they are gonna say you can use cheapest possible gas because the magic of technology can detect knock before you hear it and retard timing and silently steal your performance and money thru reduced MPG. BTW VW's hybrid with is also turbo charged state premium in manual for best power and economy because they know it makes a difference. My daughter has a Eco Cruze and has always run 93 in it and it runs much better than new turbo Cruzes on lot running 87.
Difference is night and day especially in hot weather but then if you alway use 87 you will never know what you are missing. Higher octane also makes better smelling fumes when idiots run their engines in the garage. Nope not at all.
If you want a better buzz you need a winter blend which has a higher volatility (ie higher vapor pressure) than summer blends which have lowered volatility to reduce vapor lock tendencies. Sorry, I am not an idiot that runs my generator in my garage. Someone here in this thread is though. So burn that stuff and get the most out of the VOCs you can. Now I wonder who in this thread admits to doing that?
This has cost Ford dearly in that they have had to re-rate and lower MPG of several Eco Boost models because their MPG is much worse real world with 87 octane. Detroit has long known that most are fixated on cheapest possible fuel and make sure its reflected in manual because most buyers lack the understanding that it is actually cheaper to use better fuel as they cannot see past price of fill up. Sorry, I'm going to have to go with the car experts on this one. Anecdotal, I have not noted a mileage difference in the various times I've had to buy 93, vs what I normally buy (87).
Regardless, it's doubtful you would realize a large enough difference to justify the additional $0.20/gallon in 87 vs 93. It is funny how the fact that they have long used 93 for EPA tests and lobbied hard to keep it off sticker and that fact escapes you.
As far as manual duh, they are gonna say you can use cheapest possible gas because the magic of technology can detect knock before you hear it and retard timing and silently steal your performance and money thru reduced MPG. BTW VW's hybrid with is also turbo charged state premium in manual for best power and economy because they know it makes a difference. My daughter has a Eco Cruze and has always run 93 in it and it runs much better than new turbo Cruzes on lot running 87.
Difference is night and day especially in hot weather but then if you alway use 87 you will never know what you are missing. The government also measures broadband access penetration by the max amount of bandwidth customers can obtain, and not using real figures. BTW, VW's manuals state they need the higher octane, so use it. And, as stated, I've used premium gas from time to time, and have not noted a difference in gas mileage that cannot be due to some other variables (Outdoor temperatures, for example). Again, I'll lean on car expert's opinion on this one. Higher octane also makes better smelling fumes when idiots run their engines in the garage. Nope not at all.
Harbor Freight 800 Watt Generator
If you want a better buzz you need a winter blend which has a higher volatility (ie higher vapor pressure) than summer blends which have lowered volatility to reduce vapor lock tendencies. Sorry, I am not an idiot that runs my generator in my garage. Someone here in this thread is though. So burn that stuff and get the most out of the VOCs you can. Now I wonder who in this thread admits to doing that?
Volatility is adjusted to make gas engines start easier in cold weather. I have experienced vapor lock in outdoor power equipment when stored winter gas is used in warm weather. Summer gas in them in winter leads to hard starting. I do love you continued comments on garage as it shows your total lack of understanding of even basic physics. Better not start your car in garage because it makes more CO in a minute than a generator does in 30. Also when you use better gas in car it takes a few tanks for cars computer to learn new fuel unless you pull ECM fuses for several minutes which will flush old run data and adjust quickly. This native slow learn is to prevent damage for those that love 87.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 05:06:44 AM by W8JX » Logged. Anecdotal, I have not noted a mileage difference in the various times I've had to buy 93, vs what I normally buy (87). Again, I'll lean on car expert's opinion on this one.
You would not unless you run a few tanks of it or reboot car ECM by pulling fuses. As far as experts, would that be same ones that MANDATE 93 octane in EPA tests or someone else? You know the only thing pulling the fuse on your ECM does is pop a 'Voltage Loss' fault, right? There's only one way to 'reset' a car computer, and that's a series of turns with set speeds? Car computers adjust in real time, and don't need magick to be done on them.
I do love you continued comments on garage as it shows your total lack of understanding of even basic physics. Better not start your car in garage because it makes more CO in a minute than a generator does in 30.
I am glad you do. Cause it shows your guilt since I directed it at no particular person.
Other then someone in this thread. So guess who is the idiot that does it? Only the guilty defend an indefensible position. Quite the opposite it shows your insecurity and how you try to lash out against things you do not understand. That is funny. I do love you continued comments on garage as it shows your total lack of understanding of even basic physics.
Better not start your car in garage because it makes more CO in a minute than a generator does in 30. I am glad you do. Cause it shows your guilt since I directed it at no particular person. Other then someone in this thread. So guess who is the idiot that does it? Only the guilty defend an indefensible position.
Quite the opposite it shows your insecurity and how you try to lash out against things you do not understand. That is funny. Yep you are funny! And it is good that you can laugh at yourself. Cause your stance is a joke!
If I were lashing out as you say, I would have directed it at a particular person. Again only the guilty defend an indefensible position that was not explicitly directed at them. You really need to try harder to convince the world you really do know what your talking about. Still waiting for those safety rules from the government that say running a generator inside a residential garage is proper. So far you have not posted any to prove me wrong.
The challenge is at your door, not mine. If your as smart as you think you are, you should have defeated me with the facts as printed months ago. You can quote physics all you want, chemistry too. But that is NOT the proof you need to be correct. That is not safety procedures as spelled out by government agencies and generator manufacturers. That is what you need to prove me wrong.
But you don't. I can show you how 5 x 14 = 25.but it does not make it right.
Just makes it BS. (A classic scene from an old 'Ma and Pa Kettle' movie.) BTW how are those jets with engines running in front of your garage? LOL That was a classic!
I do love you continued comments on garage as it shows your total lack of understanding of even basic physics. Better not start your car in garage because it makes more CO in a minute than a generator does in 30. I am glad you do. Cause it shows your guilt since I directed it at no particular person. Other then someone in this thread. So guess who is the idiot that does it?
Only the guilty defend an indefensible position. Quite the opposite it shows your insecurity and how you try to lash out against things you do not understand. That is funny. Yep you are funny!
And it is good that you can laugh at yourself. Cause your stance is a joke!
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If I were lashing out as you say, I would have directed it at a particular person. Again only the guilty defend an indefensible position that was not explicitly directed at them. You really need to try harder to convince the world you really do know what your talking about. Still waiting for those safety rules from the government that say running a generator inside a residential garage is proper. So far you have not posted any to prove me wrong.
The challenge is at your door, not mine. If your as smart as you think you are, you should have defeated me with the facts as printed months ago. You can quote physics all you want, chemistry too.
Harbor Freight 800 Watt Generator Manual
But that is NOT the proof you need to be correct. That is not safety procedures as spelled out by government agencies and generator manufacturers. That is what you need to prove me wrong. But you don't. I can show you how 5 x 14 = 25.but it does not make it right. Just makes it BS. (A classic scene from an old 'Ma and Pa Kettle' movie.) BTW how are those jets with engines running in front of your garage?
LOL That was a classic! You must REALLY be VERY insecure. This started as a simple info post and you get ugly. So sad but such people attack what they do not understand to feel better so I understand you plight. You need to learn that things are not what you think and with 87 it is all about marketing. GM was a pioneer in knock control/low octane fuel management and others followed suit with time. The average consumer such as yourself is happy using cheapest gas and engine not knocking and can not understand that better fuel can help because they do not know how modern engines work.
Modern turbo charged car could not exist today with spark/knock management that senses vibrations in block for early signs of preignition before you hear it. Without active and very fast control you would destroy pistons/heads in a matter of seconds under full boost with 87 octane. This concept escapes you so you attack it just like you believe in the magic wall in a open garage door that keeps fumes in. Most cars will do well on 89. Also ambient temperature plays a big roll in octane needs of a engine. A cool damp day lessens requirement and a hot dry day raises it.
You want a minimum octane to cover this and it is not 87 for best efficiency. But hey as long as it runs you and others are happy and like the illusion of only really needing the cheapest gas you can find. We drove 781 miles last month on $22 of electricity and 1.41 gallons of 93 octane gas because I push envelope and use technology. The numbers are verifiable because they usage is uploaded via onstar to your account daily and you can generate monthly reports.
I suspect you will rant again. Knock yourself out. Wow, how did this go from a generator motor to a high perf turbo car? But I guess maybe he runs turbos on his generators. As far as the discussion of octane on lawn mower engines, and what an octane increase does in a car engine with a knock sensor as opposed to a 5 horse Chonda motor, there is one glaring difference. The car engine is fully computer controlled and varies both the amount of fuel and timing to adjust for poor quality fuel.
Lawn mower engines don't have that high tech stuff. Fixed timing magnetos are all you are gonna find. So the statement of using technology to your benefit, maybe on your car, but i doubt that your harbor freight generator, or ANY portable generator is gonna have a computer controlled engine management system with a knock sensor. And just so you don't get to argue the point, yes, LARGE generators do have such controls, but you ain't buying those at harbor freight. Wow, how did this go from a generator motor to a high perf turbo car? But I guess maybe he runs turbos on his generators.
As far as the discussion of octane on lawn mower engines, and what an octane increase does in a car engine with a knock sensor as opposed to a 5 horse Chonda motor, there is one glaring difference. The car engine is fully computer controlled and varies both the amount of fuel and timing to adjust for poor quality fuel. Lawn mower engines don't have that high tech stuff.
Fixed timing magnetos are all you are gonna find. So the statement of using technology to your benefit, maybe on your car, but i doubt that your harbor freight generator, or ANY portable generator is gonna have a computer controlled engine management system with a knock sensor. And just so you don't get to argue the point, yes, LARGE generators do have such controls, but you ain't buying those at harbor freight. My daughter has a turbo car and she gets WAY better MPG and power with 93. Ford has had to rerate/lower ratings on several ECO boost model as they got much worse MPG real world on 87 rather than tell buyers they need to use better fuel. I recently took a 1100 mile trip with a Jeep compass and averaged 3 MPG better with 89 vs 87 than last trip and was pushing it harder too.
Car had a bit more power too in mountains. On mowers I spend a lot of time on a 6 foot Z turn mower with a 900cc 2 cylinder 32 hp vanguard motor on it.
It runs smoother under on 89 than 87 as you can feel it. A have a old JD 40 tractor that at nite muffler would glow red on lower part when pulling hard mowing. A few years ago I switched it to 89 and advanced timing and it no longer glows and it lugs better. The is a lot to be gain with better fuel in many engines but new cars have to be idiot proof because many will burn cheapest fuel possible even though it is actually costing them more overall.
Like I said before if it dig not matter EPA MPG test would not be mandated to be done with 93 octane and car makers lobbied to keep that off window sticker successfully. Ok, so again I ask how this relates to a portable generator. A 32 HP V-twin engine will more than run a whole house generator. Still not a 5 HP lug around generator motor. Yes, if you can advance the timing on the motor, it will run better on 93 octane fuel. Issue is that a small engine doesn't lend its self to having adjustable timing by design.
The timing on the motor is retarded on purpose to keep it out of detonation when running poor quality fuel. Manufactures do this to keep from replacing engines run on poor fuel during the warranty period.
As far as the specific issue you saw with the heat in the exhaust on your mower, yes. I agree that your changes made were what took the heat out of the exhaust. But it was the timing change that did most of that. If you are seeing the flame in the exhaust, it's obvious that the valve is opening while the fuel is still burning. That results in lost power. And yes, the reason for the timing being late is the ability for the motor to run crap gas.
Now, that being said, an engine converts heat energy into mechanical energy. The heat creates expansion of the gasses in the cylinder and THAT is what is converted into rotational power. The reason I say this is simple, if a fuel will make MORE power per gallon in an engine it would be reasonable to think that it burns hotter. You want to bring physics into it, fine. So, dumping 93 octane into a standard UNMODIFIED small engine WILL cause it to run hotter. Especially the exhaust valve.
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Its creating more heat, and you are dumping that heat across the exhaust valve because the timing issue talked about before. Now, IF you can advance the timing on the motor to light the fuel earlier, then great. That will have a significant effect on the motors efficiency and power output. Problem is that adjusting the timing on a small engine is very difficult, and putting it back is just as hard. So when you are out in the bush, and the only gas pump around says 87 on it, you have to tear your motor all apart to reset the timing. Now, the other side of the argument is this, engine makers realize that there are those folks that will run 93 in their lawn mower. So the exhaust valve on them is made of different steel than the intake valve to deal with the heat of the 93 fuel.
Keep in mind that some old engines were just prone to belching fire. I have a 53 gravely that Looks like the burner of a gas stove at night.
The fire is that constant and that blue. This is with in just running above idle. It's very old in comparison with a briggs on a current production mower. But it was made in 53 so it's 60 some years old.
I doubt that todays Honda engines will be running in 60 years. Logged Pages: 2.
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